246 - The New Car Episode

Gary:

Hi, I'm Gary and this is episode 246 of EV Musings, a podcast about renewables, electric vehicles and things that are interesting to electric vehicle owners. On the show today we'll be looking at the new electric cars either just arrived on the market or coming soon. Our main topic of discussion today is the new EV car market, specifically here in the UK.

e EV market has changed since: 2018

Well, that got me thinking. It occurred to me that it's been a long, long time since I've done an episode focused solely on the electric cars themselves. I've touched on buying second hand cars in the past, I've talked about salary sacrifice and other methods of getting an EV.

I've even spoke to EV drivers who've lived with certain cars for a while and got them to review them. See episode 242 this season for a discussion on the BYD Dolphin with Adrian Bond. But the current UK market for EVs is growing daily and I haven't actually gone through and talked about the market itself, identified the cars that are out there and given people any indication of what they can actually get.

In fact, even if I had done this last year or 18 months back, the market's changing so rapidly that the episode would already be out of date. So I wanted to have a long and quite wide ranging discussion about what's happening in the market with someone who knows a little bit more about this than I do.

Alex:

So my name is Alex Lowe.

rface. It's been going since: 2013

And nowadays I still write a lot for the website, mostly automotive now because that's where a lot of the interesting stuff is happening. But also I review cars on YouTube and have an EV podcast with my friend Jim.

Gary:

An EV podcast? No.

Alex:

Yes.

Gary:

No, everybody's got those, haven't they?

Alex:

I know.

Gary:

Well look, today what I want to do is I want to talk about what's coming on the market electric vehicle wise for the various different segments that I think whoever it is that's defined the A segment, B segment, C segment, etc. Yeah, I don't know where they came from.

No, I've no idea and I could probably look it up. But you know, to be honest, not that bothered really. They're there, we'll go with it.

So yeah, we've got A segment, B segment, C, D, F, sports cars, SUVs, and minivans. And not all of those will have something coming up that's electric in the next 12 months. And that's absolutely fine.

But what I want to go through now is each individual segment and if you could give me some thoughts about what vehicles are either newly released within the last few months or expected within the next 12 months. And if you've got any thoughts on them, if you've reviewed them, or if you've heard good, bad, or indifferent about them, let me know. And if you've got just off the top of your head, prices, potential prices, then we'll talk about that.

So can we start with the A segment, which is kind of like your mini, your little Fiat 500 style. What's out there or what's coming in that segment?

Alex:

So we've got the Abarth 500e, which don't think has sold as well as they hoped.

The prices have come down quite a lot on that in the used market. There's obviously also the Fiat 500 electric, which is pretty good. I've only driven one briefly and it's a pretty decent car.

I suppose the Hyundai Insta is in the segment above slightly. It's still quite a little diddy car, but it's that sort of size and possibly, although I haven't seen one in person, the Dacia Spring, the new one, that's a very small car. So I think that's probably in the same class as Fiat 500 potentially, but it's still quite a small little car.

Gary:

Now, of course, do we have pricing on the 500, the Abarth?

Alex:

The Abarth from memory was over 30 grand, but used, they're popping up for like 22 on AutoTrader that I haven't done many miles. The Fiat 500, interestingly, the electric one was launched a while back, but it's only just gone on sale in America.

And there's one state in America where they're offering them for $0 a month and $0 down.

Someone did a video on that, I can't remember who.

Gary:

Is it Florida?

Alex:

No, it's not Florida, no.

Gary:

You get it on a lease, but because of the tax incentives, the tax incentives actually cover the complete cost of the lease. So you're effectively getting a vehicle for free, aren't you?

Alex:

Yeah. And also from the dealer they spoke to, the Stellantis are actually encouraging them. If they shift more EVs, they get more other Stellantis nice vehicles.

Gary:

Stellantis are nice in the same sense. No, I shouldn't say that. They do some very nice cars, they're just not.

To me, Stellantis have efficiency issues. A lot of the cars really nice, nice to drive, but 2, 2.9, maybe 3 miles to kilowatt hour, that's not great for vehicles that size.

Alex:

There is also apparently, well, the new Fiat Panda was launched a few weeks ago, a few days ago. Top of my head, I don't know how big it is compared to the old combustion Panda, because the old Panda was in this A segment of cars, but it's a nice little car. So yeah.

Yeah. I've seen a couple of reviews of that. Looks nice.

Gary:

Of course, one of the selling points of the Panda, the new Panda, is it's got the inbuilt charging cable. It's got the little flap at the front and you can pull the charging cable out. It actually is longer.

There's more cable actually stored in the front of the vehicle than the actual full length of the vehicle. It's over, was it over five meters of cable in there?

Alex:

Yeah, I think so.

I saw an interesting little video from Nicola Hume from Electrifying, and she said the original electric Panda, which I didn't know existed, had the same cable system. So I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah.

Gary:

That was the one where she was on top of the Fiat factory in Turin, where they filmed the Italian job, wasn't it?

Alex:

I think so. Yeah.

Gary:

Very cool. Yeah. So do we think that's an A segment or a B segment?

Because as you say, the original Panda was small, but with all the new safety things, they've had to increase the size. What do you reckon?

Alex:

It's probably a bit bigger now.

The thing is, in this A segment of vehicles, there's loads of combustion cars that were made, like the Up and the original Toyota Aygo, which is now a little bit bigger than it was before. But there's not many EVs in that segment yet. The Up has been discontinued, as I said and apparently, I don't know if it is going to come to the UK, but the Renault Twingo, that concept has been shown off. But we don't know yet if that's going to come to the UK. So there aren't many in that segment, to be fair.

Gary:

Let's jump up to the B segment then. You've already mentioned the Hyundai Insta. Talk to me a little bit about that.

Alex:

I'm hopefully going to review one at some point this year, I'm hoping. But I've sat in one a few months ago at a dealership near me, because they had one that was doing a tour of the UK. I love that little thing.

Obviously, I haven't driven it. Not many people have. But it's a really good little design.

And I think, as I said to you last time, we recorded a podcast together that Hyundai, the Hyundai group are really well known for their EV prowess. And that little car has potential for a lot, really. And the package is really good.

Gary:

So it is one of those. I mean, I could say this because I used to drive a Kia Soul, but it is one of those that has a bit of the Marmite looks. It's not the prettiest car, the Insta, same as the original Kia Soul wasn't the prettiest car.

But like you say, Hyundai, Hyundai, Hyundai, however we want to pronounce it this week, make very, very good electric vehicles. They're renowned for their efficiency.

Alex:

They of course do the 800 volt charging on their big cars.

Gary:

Yes, that's it. That's the one. Yes, they've got the 800 volt charging, which of course makes long distance journeys a little bit easier than than before, but do we know what price they're looking at for the Hyundai Insta?

Alex:

It's around 23 or 22, that sort of ballpark.

Gary:

And remind me of the battery size on that.

Alex:

Okay, there's 23,495 when it goes on sale this year, 49 kilowatt hours, and there was another one, there was another size of it, I can't quite remember.

And it has 85 kilowatt charging, which is okay.

Gary:

The issue with some of the smaller cars like this is, if you want to get longer range, you need the bigger battery, that puts the price up, if you want the faster charging, you need the bigger inverter, that puts the price up. So they're having to make compromises.

It's like the Dacia Spring that we mentioned earlier, we put the Dacia Spring in this segment or the A segment?

Alex:

It's A, I think it's A or B, yeah.

Gary:

And again, you know, that's got an old fashioned key, it's got an old fashioned brake, you know, it's, I say old fashioned, I learned to drive in cars like that, there's nothing wrong with them at all. Things like that to keep the price down and the, what's it got, it's got 20 odd kilowatt hour battery, the Dacia Spring, it's quite a small one for the size of the vehicle.

Alex:

I don't think it's quite that small, but it is quite small.

Gary:

Of course, you don't get the huge range on that, but again, that's the compromise you have to make for a vehicle of that cost, isn't it, that price?

Alex:

26.8, that's the size, so, and the DC charging is really slow, so. It's a fun car, definitely, but fills a niche and then that's what people want.

Gary:

Any more in the B segment?

Alex:

So the E208 from Peugeot against Stellantis, the Vauxhall Corsa, car I reviewed recently is the Ora 03 or the Funky Cat, I think that's possibly in that segment. It's a little bit larger in terms of it's, it's sort of a little bit swollen in terms of its size, but that's, I think that's supposed to be in that size segment. And obviously in the past we had the Fiesta, which sadly hasn't got an EV version. Just driving along, you might think that people just want SUVs, but if you pay attention to what's on the road, people are in super minis the whole time, really. So yeah.

Gary:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Give me your one sentence review of the Ora or the Funky Cat as it was.

Alex:

I spent three months with it, I just went back a few weeks ago and I took it to Ireland as well. I really enjoyed it, but it needs some software improvement, which I'm glad to report that their new versions and their new GT version has the new software version and that has improved a lot of the warning sounds. It's basically, you could just drive it with no warning systems turned off, which is good.

Gary:

Oh, good. Cause you don't get the bings and the bongs and the beeps and. Yeah.

Alex:

I enjoyed it. It was good. It's, it's a, it's one to look, one to test drive. I think that's, that's, that's it.

Gary: And the price on that?

Alex:

The price has actually come down. So it used to be over 30 for the entry level 48 kilowatt hour version, it's now 24. And that new GT version is actually cheaper than the old pro plus model.

Gary:

Hmm. Interesting.

Alex:

Yep. Interesting.

Gary:

Anything else? A B segment? Renault 5? Is that a B segment? Is that a C segment?

Alex:

That's probably B.

Gary:

Yeah?

Gary:

Yeah. Cause just based on how the, how the rear legroom is apparently from what I've heard.

Gary:

Okay. So yeah. Have you, have you driven the Renault 5?

Alex:

No.

Gary:

Have you seen the Renault 5? You been in one?

No, I'm trying desperately to get my hands on, on stuff from Renault and it's proven me quite difficult. Yeah.

Gary:

But yeah, it's, um, I sat in one at EV Live at Blending Palace last year, the guys there sort of opened it up after hours and yeah, you know, I'm, I'm from the era, I remember the original Renault 5 from the, uh, from the eighties and this was, you know, the electrified version of that.

It looks very, very similar, you sit in it, it feels very, very similar. I'm hoping the brakes are a little bit better cause a lot of those hot hatches of the eighties suffered from poor brakes, which meant that you had all the speed and the power, but you couldn't stop it. So a lot of them ended up being written off because it ran into the back of cars in front.

But, uh, yeah, I, I definitely like the, uh, the look of the 5. I think Renault have done just what needs to be done to, to make that work. Is it the 5 or the 4 that's got the baguette holder in it?

Alex:

supposed to be coming out in: 2025

So yeah, I just had to look at what some of these segments mean cause it's very blurry now.

Gary:

So now that that's interesting because the ID2, yes, um, that segment, but are they also not bringing out an ID2 SUV version?

Alex:

Apparently.

Gary:

So what segment's that going to go in?

Alex:

So apparently something like the Audi Q2 is apparently a B-segment crossover.

Gary:

Ridiculous.

Alex:

It's very messy.

Gary:

Do we have prices on the Renault 5?

Alex:

Yeah. It's like 20, the same sort of size of the Insta is 23, 22 grand.

Gary:

So that's starting to become a very competitive segment, isn't it?

Alex: Yeah. It's actually a five pounds under 23,000 pounds. And there's a lot of people I follow on Twitter or X actually that I, from based on what they post to people, they're very petroheader orientated and they, this car has convinced them. They've ordered, they've ordered them.

So there's a few people I follow that have done that.

Gary:

Love it. Love it. Love it. Any more B's before we move on to the C's?

Alex:

Don't think so. No.

Gary:

Okay. So to me, the, the C-segment is like the Renault Megane level.

I think that's, that's where we are with that. Does that sort of jive with what you know?

Alex:

Yeah. So it says, sort of says the Golf, the A-class, Ford Focus, which isn't with us anymore. The Corolla, the one series. Yeah.

That's about right. ID. 3.

Gary:

So, yeah. So what have we got this new electric wise in the C-segment? Anything?

Alex:

The Astra, the electric Astra is not that new. It was out, it came out a while ago. From memory, the ID.3 got refreshed last year, I think it wasn't a massive change. I can't, I can't think to be, I don't think there's that much stuff unless I'm overlooking tons of stuff.

Gary:

What was the car that you mentioned originally before the, no, before the ID.3? You mentioned an electric.

Alex: That's Ford Astra.

Gary:

Oh yes, the Astra. Yeah. The, the benefit of course on the beauty of the Astra is now because of the way Vauxhall are pricing them.

You can now get a, on a monthly payment basis, you can get the electric Astra for the same price as the petrol Astra. Now yeah, it's over four years rather than three. So the overall list price is higher.

But if you're working on how much you're going to spend per year, then you can get the Astra at, in fact, it's probably, I think it's something like a pound or a couple of pounds less per month for the electric version than it is for the petrol and combustion engine, which is what we need basically.

Alex:

There's also the MG4, which is a, this was classed as C segment as well.

Gary:

Fantastic car, drove the MG4 X-Power at everything electric last year, frightened my passengers, which was good, except if you're one of my passengers and they weren't that pleased about it.

But of course the X-Power now, would the X-Power come into this segment or does it, it kind of would, wouldn't it? Because it's not based on. It's based on size.

Yes. So that's good. Downside of course to that is it's a little bit more expensive for the X-Power version, but you know, if you want something that is a really fast car, but doesn't look fast, that's the one you should be going for.

Alex:

Yeah. The MG4 was the very first car I reviewed on my channel, actually. I came away from that experience thinking the software was rubbish, but I've spoke to a few people since, and apparently the software is a lot better now.

ly was not in a good shape in: 2023

Gary:

And it's interesting because that seems to be a common refrain that's going around with a lot of the electric vehicles. We've already mentioned two Chinese versions. You talked about the GWM Aura and the MG4. My ID3, when I got it three years ago. software on that.

I mean, it still is bad because I haven't had it upgraded. But I have a friend who's got the ID7, which ultimately is the same underlying software, and they've upgraded it and it has improved beyond recognition in the new versions of the ID. And I come back to this, and if you've listened to the podcast, you'll know I've mentioned this time and time again.

We know what good software looks like because Tesla have been doing it for years and years and years. Why can't we get anything that's remotely close to that? Why do we have to go through this cycle of, we'll put out a version that's not very good, and then we'll iterate to make it better and better over time?

It baffles me why we're going through the process the way we are when we can look at Tesla and go, well, that's what the software needs to do. Sure, we'll make it look a little bit different because we don't want to plagiarise, but we know what it needs. We know how it works.

Make something similar.

Alex:

I don't know when it happened, but I think with cars in the past, you couldn't update them over the air, so they had to work. Obviously, cars in the past were simpler, but the limited software they did have wasn't really that easy to mess up.

But also, you literally just physically can't go and update all of them if there's a bug that you find. So the QA has to be really, really nailed. But I think now, especially with how smartphones are done, Apple have done it with iOS.

Rather than get everything solid for day one, they just iterate and give features drip throughout the year. Unfortunately, I think with the cars, they just want to get it out the door because the competition is so hot at the moment. They'll give it a minimal viable run and then try and fix it over time, but sometimes that doesn't always happen. So I think other priorities come along. But you are right, the Tesla software is really good. Actually, to be fair, the software in modern cars I really, really like is the Hyundai Group cars.

Again, I've crossed all three of their brands. It all works the same. If you get into a Genesis, you get into a Kia EV9 or something, it's all the same.

It just looks slightly different just to differentiate the brands, but they've nailed it and their app actually works properly. So it's really good.

Gary:

Tell us about Renault, because we've got the Renault Megane in the C-segment. Have you driven that? The new electric one? I suppose that is in the C-segment.

Alex:

I haven't actually. I haven't driven any modern Renaults really, apart from, no, I haven't actually.

Gary:

I've been in one. A friend of the podcast, Ron Godfrey, he was with Onto for a couple of years before they went busted. He called it the Migraine rather than the Megane because he likes to make names out of things, which is fine. He had it for a number of months.

I think he liked it. It was reasonably efficient. In fact, I believe he did his trip all around the, he went to all six corners of the UK and did about a couple of thousand miles in six or seven days.

And he did it all in the Renault, really enjoyed it.

My impression of Renaults is that they're a little bit on the expensive side. They certainly were from a subscription point of view.

Do we know what the list price is on the Megane?

Alex:

It's about 41 according to EV database. Yeah.

Gary:

Yeah. Which for a C-segment is a little bit expensive. Yeah.

Alex:

Yeah. There's also in this segment, the Kia Niro, which is a, by all accounts, a really, really good car. I haven't driven that yet.

I've driven the Hyundai version, but.

Gary:

I don't know anyone who's got a Niro who doesn't think it's the best electric vehicle that they've ever driven.

Alex:

Any car which is in that segment, which is that old, because it's not a new car. They haven't updated it recently. Well, they did a little bit of a facelift 18 months ago or something like that, but it's still fundamentally the same car.

Gary:

Any car where you can get in and that kind of battery is giving you 300 miles plus in summer. Absolutely fantastic.

Alex:

Yeah. Again, a little bit expensive, but that's the nature of a car that's that old really, isn't it?

It didn't have the most up-to-date tech. It didn't have the most up-to-date batteries and those things have brought the price down in the meantime, haven't they? There's also the BYD Ato III, which I've seen quite a few on the road lately.

And there's also the new Skoda Elrock.

Gary:

Ooh, yes. Talk to me about that.

Alex:

I've heard about it. I haven't looked at it in detail.

Gary:

What's the, I was going to say, where does it fit, but obviously it's a C-segment.

What's the fundamental difference between that and the Enyaq?

Alex:

I think it's mainly size. In terms of the physical dimensions of it, I believe.

I haven't looked too far into it.

Gary:

The form factor is still the same, is it? It's just a smaller version.

Alex:

Yeah. I find at the moment there's so many new cars coming out, even writing and reviewing them, I still struggle to keep track of everything that's happening. It's 38,000 for the 85, the Elrock 85, which has got a 77 kilowatt hour battery.

Which makes sense, doesn't it?

Gary: Yep. I'm not sure about that one.

Pretty good. I like the design of it because they've gone for much slimmer headlights now with some segments in the headlights. It looks quite fancy to be fair, but.

Gary:

Skoda, of course, are Volkswagen and Audi group, so it's based on the same platform as what, the ID. 3?

Alex:

Yeah. Similar platform. And the ID. 4, ID.3.

Gary:

Yeah.

Alex:

For C-segment, C-segment apparently is the BYD Dolphin as well, which is an outstanding car.

Like really, really good.

Gary:

We had an episode a couple of weeks ago where we spoke to Adrian Bond, who's had a BYD Dolphin for six, seven months now. Absolutely loves it, takes it all over the country. Fantastic vehicle, especially with things like vehicle to load, which is something that a lot of these new Chinese cars are bringing across as well.

Alex:

There's not many cars where I can find just one thing wrong with them. And the only thing wrong with that is it's got an alert system to tell you that you might have left a child or a dog in the car.

Even if you turn it off, it just turns back on every time. So if you walk away and then leave, I don't know, you're sat in there charging your car, it just goes berserk. So that's the only problem with it.

Other than that, it's great. Really good efficiency, really good range. Brilliant car.

Gary:

And I know when Adrian got his, they had a really good deal. It was something ridiculous. I don't remember the exact figures, but it was something like £260 down and then £250 a month to repay it, which is absolutely phenomenal for a vehicle like that.

Alex:

Yeah. I saw a lot of those deals and was kind of tempted to be fair, but I never followed through with it.

Gary:

Anything else in the C-segment before we move up?

Alex:

I'm just having a quick peruse through this list. Obviously, we mentioned the ID. 3, but there's also the Cupra Born, which people who own them love them.

Gary:

Again, never driven one of those, but I've driven the ID. 3.

Alex:

And that's it for most of the interesting stuff.

There's also the BMW stuff, but I'm not a massive fan of their electric stuff.

Gary:

All right, then the D-segment, which I think is like the Model 3. Does that come into the D-segment?

Alex:

That's right.

Gary:

Okay. So what's in there that's sort of fairly new or coming up soon?

Alex:

In terms of what's new, there is the Polestar 2, which I believe has been recently facelifted. I can't quite remember. This isn't as new, but the BYD seal is often regarded as the Model 3's competitor, which it's again like the Dolphin.

It's a fabulous car. Also, yeah, the Model 3, which I've driven the Highland version last year, and it's so impressive. Really, really impressive.

Gary:

I had a Polestar 2 for a couple of weeks over Christmas. Absolutely loved it. Fantastic.

It was the facelifted version. Had the slightly different, slightly higher battery size, slightly higher power on it. Put 1,000, 1,500 miles on it over Christmas.

It was superb. Really, really loved it. Again...

The pricing is a little bit high. I think I recall the version that I had was specced out at about 60, 65,000 I think with the packs that were included.

Alex:

The long range single motor is apparently 48, so yeah, could easily go up to 60 like you said, yeah?

Gary:

Oh yeah, I had the long range dual motor with the sports pack and the comfort pack and god knows what packs in it. Yeah, I knew somebody at Polestar who said, would you like this for a while? And I went, oh yes, please.

And she said, it's top of the range. I went, that's absolutely fine. So there you go.

Brilliant.

Alex:

The BYD Seal

Drove one of those at Everything Electric. Loved the car.

Gary:

I had an issue trying to see the screen. It looked very, very dark from where I was sitting. I couldn't seem to get that.

And I'm not sure whether that is just my eyesight, cos I'm not as young as I used to be, or whether it was that particular vehicle. Everybody else in the car seemed not to have a problem, especially the people in the back, but we'll see.

Alex:

I drove one briefly at like a BYD media event thing last year and there was some weird setting on the Dolphin to do with the screen brightness and I can't remember exactly what it was, but there was a bizarre option in there to make it normal again.

Gary:

Yeah, and it's interesting because we had someone from BYD in the car with us and I said, it's a little bit dark. She said, all the brightness is up at full. And I'm thinking, well, if that's full, that could be an issue.

But yeah, as you say, very, very nice, very luxurious inside.

Alex:

Definitely a Model 3 competitor in terms of the price, in terms of the right segment. There are those that will go, well, it will never be as good as Tesla because it does not plug and charge and all that sort of stuff.

Gary:

And there is an amount of truth in that, but it depends on what you're after in an electric vehicle, doesn't it? I don't know.

Alex:

t there's coming out in June,: 2025

So that's that beautiful saloon car, which is categorized in the same class, which is going to have, this is basically Mazda's first proper EV because the old one, the MX-30 was a bit of a silly one. So I was just going to say, I look very nice. I've sat in it.

It looks nice. It's nice inside, but the battery is too small. The charge speed's too slow.

Gary:

Talk to me about the specs on this then. I don't think I've heard of this one. It's beautiful.

Alex:

So it's got a 75 kilowatt-hour battery pack. Apparently, according to EV database, it's 275 miles of range, but apparently the rapid charging is only 70 kilowatt.

Gary:

And the price on that?

Alex:

42. The charging speed's too low, to be honest, because when I was driving the Ora, the max on that was 64. And I think from 10 to 80%, it was 48 minutes.

And I did test it twice, actually, from single digits to 100, it took two hours. Because once it gets to the top, it seems to go back right down to 30 or less. So I don't know if this will have the same problem, but it might do.

But it's a lovely looking thing. But why just don't give it better charging speed? It's ridiculous, isn't it?

Gary:

I don't know whether you've seen the video that Kyle Connor from OutOfSpec did with the Zika. He's got the fastest charging vehicle on the planet. It's got gold colored LFP batteries.

It was a 77 kilowatt-hour, and he did nought to three to 80% in 11 minutes. And then he ran it right up to 100%. And it went up to some ridiculous thing like 340, 380 kilowatts.

And then when it gets to about 85%, it drops to 20 kilowatts. And it stays there for a few minutes as it does a bit of battery balancing and checking. And then it jumps back up to like 150 or 160 kilowatts.

Alex:

Bizarre, but I suppose if it helps the battery, then fair enough.

Gary:

And it doesn't seem to be causing any slowdown in the overall time it takes you to charge. So recommend you on that video out if you haven't seen it.

Alex:

Yeah. I've followed Kyle on Twitter and he posts all sorts of things all the time. Really, really good.

Really good videos on there.

Gary:

Are there any other D segments that we haven't, new D segments that we haven't covered?

Alex:

Porsche Macan.

Gary:

Good. Talk to me about the Porsche Macan then.

Alex:

I reviewed that one in November last year.

Outstanding in every way, apart from the price. Because I think the one I reviewed was over a hundred grand.

Gary:

A hundred grand.

The joke that we have in my family when somebody talks about something that's expensive is, my dad bought his first house for less than that. But for a hundred grand, my dad bought his first four houses for less than that added together. It's just ridiculous. For a car.

Alex:

That was the turbo model. I don't think that one's really necessary because it had like 600, 700 horsepower.

I think the two-wheel drive ones can be fine for most people. But on an electric- Oh, I know. I know.

The naming's a bit silly, but they've really nailed that. The handling is just telepathic. It's so agile and so responsive for a big car.

Gary:

Brilliant. Have a look at your crystal ball here. One of the big dings that people give against electric vehicles is they depreciate a lot.

And the prime example everybody gives is the Porsche Taycan. Do you feel potentially that the Macan will avoid that sort of 50% depreciation in six months that we've seen on some Porsche Taycans? Or do you think it may just end up going the same way?

Alex:

I really don't know. I think with electric vehicles, I think most people are probably leasing them, which causes some conversations. But that's probably the best way because why would you buy a car as a financial investment?

Gary:

And I think the problem that the Taycan had, which is why I asked the question, is it's very, very expensive. I mean, it's a lovely car. I've driven one.

I've taken one around the track. Fantastic cars to drive. But it's very expensive for what it is.

And I think the depreciation is a result of the fact that it's quote-unquote overpriced. And the depreciation is bringing it back down to a price that people would expect to pay for something like that.

Alex: I mean, you're paying for the Porsche name. So the Taycan starts at 86, which I didn't realise it was that high, to be honest. But the Macan, the entry-level version, which is going to be amazing, the electric one, it starts at 68. So it is cheaper.

So it might do because there are some murmurs about what's happening at Porsche. This is supposedly going to be the only new Macan on sale. People get all worked up about that it might not be.

But at the moment, there isn't any official stance from Porsche about that. They said initially that the new Macan will be electric only and the petrol one will be left to rot, essentially. If that is the only new Macan available and it is that good, it might do.

But I just can't see why people buy cars as investments. But yeah, anyway.

Gary:

Has that been released yet?

Alex:

The electric one? In the UK, yeah. Yeah, it's on sale now. I've seen quite a few. I don't think I've ever seen one on the road, though. It's interesting. The thing is, they look like the petrol one. There's nothing on it to say it's electric, which is probably quite a good thing for some people. So yeah.

Gary:

Okay, moving on. What else have we got?

Alex:

Well, there is the Skywell BE11, which I reviewed recently, which is awful in every regard.

Gary:

So I went with Quentin Willson to Paris last year on the London, Brighton, Paris rally. He gave a review of it, which was fine. But what he didn't put into the review was we stopped at an ionity charge and plugged in, and the car went, I've no idea what this charger is, I'm not going to charge. Because it was so new, it's still the experimental one, they hadn't actually loaded the Ionity profile into the software, so it didn't recognize, it didn't know how to do a handshake or anything. And he ended up crawling down the French auto route at a reasonably slow speed, because his state of charge was a little bit low, to the next one, which was a FastEd charger, fingers crossed, hoping that it recognized that.

And luckily it did, so that was absolutely fine, but it was the downsides of taking an experimental vehicle on a fairly long journey.

Alex:

Yeah, that white one that he would have had made the rounds and all the reviews last year, and I think Autocar, one of them, gave it one star. And they took that on board, which, first of all, I wouldn't have given an experimental vehicle to the reviewing media, but anyway, they took it on board, and the one I reviewed apparently was a lot better, but it had, so it had different batteries from BYD, I think it had a BYD motor, and it still is.

Most electric cars that haven't been developed properly, they seem to have a big issue with putting their power down. They just have wheel spin issues, so the Ora had that issue to start with, and that's been fixed now. This has got it in buckets.

In the review I published, it's just, at most speeds under 40, you floor it, it just spins. It felt quite dodgy to drive, to be honest, and it's too expensive, it's 40 grand, just under, anyway. There wasn't anything else new in that segment, really.

Gary:

All right, so the E-segment, or is it the executive segment that they now call it?

Alex:

Apparently, yeah, executive, yeah.

Gary:

Okay. Which to me is your Model S, maybe, EV6, Ioniq 5, that sort of stuff?

Alex:

Yeah, we've got the ID. 7, as you mentioned earlier.

We've got the Polestar 3, which, I don't think I've seen, that must be the one without the rear window, I think. I think I've seen one of those.

Gary:

No, that's the Polestar 4.

The Polestar 3 is the SUV,

Alex:

yeah. Okay, so that one's apparently in this E-segment. Q8 as well, i5. i5's great, actually. I did say earlier that the BMW electric stuff's not very good, but the i5 is that exception. It's really, really good in its design and the way it drives, and the charging speed as well is really good. New stuff, S6 and the A6. The Audis, yeah. Yeah, that's just an ID.7 underneath, and they've been available since September. Massive batteries on those, like nearly 100 kilowatt hours.

Gary:

But again, don't they need it, because are they not sort of big, heavy lumps that are quite inefficient?

Alex:

Yeah, the efficiency's actually not too bad. The efficiency's on par with the ID. 7. I never understand this format, but the 279 watt hours per mile, I always have to convert that.

Gary:

Oh, 279 watt hours per mile is a little... If it was 250 watt hours per mile, it'd be four miles to the kilowatt hour.

So it's more than that, so it's less than four miles to the kilowatt hour. Not bad.

Alex:

Yeah.

Gary:

ID. 7, as I said, a friend of mine's got one of those, been out in it. As I said before, the software, much, much, much improved over earlier ID software. Really, really nice car. He's got the Tourer version, so the estate version, which I think is only the third estate EV that's available after the- MG5's just been discontinued. Has it?

Ooh, so that now brings it back down to two, because the Porsche Taycan version, is it Turismo? That's the estate, yeah?

Alex:

Yeah, Porsche Taycan Gran Turismo is the estate version. There's an I5 estate. There's also the ID. 7 estate.

So there's three at the moment, then.

Gary:

Yeah, but really, really nice car. Well thought out. Software's good. He's getting good efficiency on it. He's only had it since just before Christmas. He's taken it down to... Did he take it to Germany? No, he didn't, but he took it up to Scotland a couple of times and back. Absolutely loves it.

Alex:

There is also, released in January, is the updated BMW iX, that big, massive thing. Prices are up to 115 grand, so...

Yeah, there's not loads of new stuff in this segment, to be fair. Most newest stuff is the iX and the A6, so yeah.

Gary:

Let me just jump back to the D segment.

Did we miss the Kia EV3?

Alex:

EV3 is classed as a B segment.

Gary:

Oh, wow.

Alex:

Because again, that's another one like the Insta, where I look at it and I think that's got the potential to be a really good, really popular electric vehicle. And a lot of people I've spoken to whose opinions I respect have seen the EV3 and thought, yeah, I like that. I like that.

So...

Alex:

Yeah, 32, nine and five for the entry-level version, so...

Gary:

Okay.

Anything else in the executive segment?

Alex:

Nothing that stands out, to be honest.

Gary:

So, all we've got left now, basically, is the top of the range, the F segment, so the Rolls-Royce Spectre, that sort of stuff, the sports cars, the SUVs and the minivans.

Can we lump them all together? Because these are all the big, expensive ones, really, aren't they?

Alex:

So, we've got, yeah, F, N and S, to give them their official terms. Apparently, the Kia EV9's in the F segment. Luxury, I guess, because of its size and price, maybe. Well, no, not price, but size. So, that one, we've both mentioned that, I think, this episode.

Gary:

Fantastic. I don't know.

Have you driven one yet?

Alex:

Yep. Took it to Devon, actually. It was good.

Gary:

There was one of those on the London Brighton, Paris, Geneva...

Alex:

Oh, really?

Gary:

rally, yeah. And the whole thing about that rally is it's an efficiency rally, it's because you measure your efficiency between the points and whoever has the best efficiency wins. He wasn't hanging around.

I mean, he overtook me at great speed on one of the French autoroutes, arrived in Geneva like an hour and a half, two hours before everybody else. And because it's got a huge battery and because it charges so quickly, he said, I'm not hanging around. I'm going to go, I'm going to stop and have my lunch and charge, and I'm on my way.

So, he really, really loved it. And of course, because it's so huge, did you see Paul Kirby from the EV Cafe took one? He took his whole family, I think there was about six or seven of them in the car, took them up to Scotland earlier on in January.

Absolutely loved it. Again, because plenty of room for everybody, plenty of room for the bags, nice tourer. And again, with the battery size and the range, absolutely fine.

Alex:

Yeah. Makes long distances very, very easy. The only problem is the efficiency slightly, because it is such a big lump, but the charging speed is fine.

Gary:

And the price on that?

Alex:

64, which isn't awful for that size of battery, it's 100 kilowatt hours.

Gary:

Yeah.

And if you're in the market for a... Because it's seven seater effectively, isn't it?

Alex:

Yeah.And they're good size seats.

Gary:

And there aren't many seven seater electric vehicles around, are there?

Alex:

No, not at all. Elsewhere is the Model S, which isn't really officially on sale in the UK, because it's left on drive. There's a Lotus Electra, which isn't that new. There's some Mercedes SUVs in there as well.

And as you said, the Rolls Royce Spectre, which is the price of most houses. It's just a ridiculous thing.

Gary:

Mind you, Rolls Royces have always been ridiculous.

They're statement vehicles rather than practical vehicles. Although they're very nice to drive. They're very nice to ride in, because they're designed to be ridden in rather than to drive, aren't they?

Alex:

The Mercedes EQS.

Gary: Have we missed anything before we do a quick wrapping up?

Alex:

Yeah. Some vans and things, like the van segments, there's the ID Buzz, which is brilliant. I think that we had some sports cars mentioned in this list as well.

Gary:

Where does the Cyberster fit, the MG Cuberster?

Alex:

That's in sports car. is, let me see if I can find it on here, that is price-wise not too bad really for what you get. Yeah, MG Cybuster GTN Trophy, £54,995.

Gary:

Again, I'm asking myself if I had £54,995, would I buy a Cybuster? Because I've driven one, loved driving it, very, very nice car, but at the end of the day, it's two seats. Now, I, people who've listened to the podcast know this, I drove Porsche 911s for 10 years, and they were 2 plus 2s, so there was at least something that you could put your bag in at the back.

With this, there's nothing, it's two seats and that's it. So, if you want to take any bags with you, I think you might, I think, has it got a frunk or a trunk? But it's not huge, believe me, it is not huge.

Alex:

The other sports car kind of grand tour-y thing that people forget about is the Maserati Grand Cabrio for Liguori or something? So, £185,000.

Gary:

We'll put that up with the Rolls-Royce Spectre, shall we? One of those that, you know, when you've got all the cars you want and you just want one more, yeah, we'll just get the Spectre.

Alex:

Yeah, apart from all the passenger vans and all the electric vans, which there are loads of actually now, that's pretty much it really.

Gary:

All right, so as we wrap up, we've talked a lot about the Bs and the Cs and the Ds segments, where do you see the majority of the sales being for the newer vehicles? Are people going to be buying from price? So, you know, it's the cheaper ones that are going to be there, or are they going to be trying to find the best balance between the price of a vehicle and will it do 300 miles? Because as we've said already, you can't have a cheap car that does 300 miles because the battery's not there.

So, where do you think the majority of the sales are going to be? What's your feeling?

Alex:

It's probably, judging by what's on the road, it seems to be those smaller SUVs up to the larger SUVs, but not the massive ones.

So, like the Kia Niro and the Hyundai Kona and the Model Y as well, which has always been a really well-selling car. It seems to be those cars. And also, when we dip into the hatchbacks and stuff, like the Mini, there's loads of Minis around my way, the electric ones, most of the last-gen versions, but it seems to be those smaller cars.

And even in the combustion world, those smaller super Minis seem to be the most popular things.

Gary:

But is that a function of the fact that we didn't have cars like the Insta and the EV3 and the Dacia Spring prior to this year or the end of last year, with those new vehicles coming on that are, quote-unquote, much cheaper than what we've had before? Do you think there's going to be a lot of people going and looking at cars like that and going, yeah, I can get away with not having quite maybe the range that I need and stopping a little bit longer just to save the money? Or are they going to go, no, I need about 300 miles, I'm going to go for the Niro or the Kia?

Alex:

It might be a bit of both. I think it just depends on how open-minded the customer is.

If you really look at how many miles you do in a week and rationally think about it, all you need is the Insta or something like that. Yeah, I think it will be a bit of both depending on who the person is and how willing they are to compromise on different things if they need to or not. That's a key word, isn't it? Compromise.

Gary:

Alex, I think it's been a great conversation. Thanks a lot.

I will probably get back to you maybe the end of this year and we'll have a look and see what our prognostications have been and whether the Insta has just sold bucket loads and the Dacia Springer has sold bucket loads or whether it's just, it's sold a few, but everybody's gone for the Teslas or whatever.

Alex:

Sounds good. Looking forward to it.

Gary:

So what have we learned today? Well, when Alex and I get together for a discussion, we go off on tangents, laugh quite a lot and sometimes get sidetracked with stories about cars we've driven, et cetera. So apologies for the rambling nature of that discussion.

But basically the market for pretty much all segments of the car buying public is starting to fill with electric vehicle models. Some of them are dual power source, such as the Stellantis range, which generally are available in petrol or electric. Additionally to that, we've discovered that the range of more affordable electric vehicles is growing all the time.

The Dacia Spring, the Renault 5 and 4, et cetera. By the way, the state in the US is offering Fiat 500s for zero down and zero up a month on a lease is Colorado. So that's the electric vehicle market in the UK at the moment.

Any of those grab your attention? Do you fancy any of those? Are you on the lookout for a new vehicle soon?

Let me know either in the comments or info at evmusings. com. It's time for a cool EV or renewable thing to share with your listeners.

Ember Buses in Scotland have launched a number of bus services that run on fully electric buses. They cover Aberdeen to Dundee and Edinburgh and Glasgow. And what sets this service apart from others is that they're cheap, Aberdeen to Edinburgh for about £16.

They run buses regularly 24-7, they're wheelchair accessible, Wi-Fi enabled and comfortable. And most importantly, they can do the runs such as Aberdeen to Edinburgh, 130 miles without stopping to charge. The other key differentiator is that they have bookable request stops for towns and villages along these routes.

So if you're in Northeaster Bridge, south of Aberdeen, and you want to get to Edinburgh, you can order an electric bus to take you there. Cheap, comfortable, and they also allow bikes to be transported to let you do the first and last mile emission free too. Great work, Ember.

Hope you enjoyed listening to today's show. It was put together this week with the help of Alex Lowe. My thanks to Alex, and you can find links to his channels in the show notes.

If you have any thoughts, criticisms, comments or other general musings to pass on to me, I can be reached at info at evmusings. com. On the socials, I'm on bluesky at evmusings.

bsky. social. I'm also on Instagram at evmusings where I post short videos and podcast extracts regularly.

Why not follow me there? Thanks to everyone who supports me through Patreon on a monthly basis, and through ko-fi. com on an ad hoc one.

If you enjoyed this episode, why not buy me a coffee? Go to ko-fi. com slash evmusings, and you can do just that.

Takes Apple Pay too. Regular listeners will know about my two ebooks, So You've Gone Electric, and So You've Gone Renewable. They're 99p each or equivalent, and you can get them on Amazon.

Check out the links in the show notes for more information, as well as a link to my regular evmusings newsletter and associated article. I know you're probably driving or walking or jogging now, but if you can remember and you enjoyed this episode, drop a review in iTunes please. It really helps me out.

If you've reached this part of the podcast and are still listening, thank you. Why not let me know you've got to this point by messaging me at musingsev. bsky.

social with the words, how can it be new and improved? Hashtag if you know you know. Nothing else.

Thanks as always to my co-founder Simone. You know he's a huge sci-fi fan and loves to talk technical jargon and investigate new bits of tech. I asked him the other day if he's deciding whether he's staying here or going abroad for his next holiday.

He told me,

Alex:

I don't know if that is a UK option because I haven't even been for the configurator yet. Thanks for listening.

Gary:

Byeee!