212 - The Car Main Dealer Episode

Gary C:

Hi, I'm Gary and this is episode 212 of EV musings, a podcast about renewables, electric vehicles and things that are interesting to electric vehicle owners. On the show today we'll be looking at the motor trade and how it sells electric cars

This season of the podcast is sponsored by Zapmap, the free to download app that helps EV drivers search, plan and pay for their charging. Before we start, I wanted to thank you for your thoughts on my discussion with Anthony Browne, the Minister for Decarbonisation. One recurring theme was that he should really be drivingan EV already not a hybrid if he's that committed to the cause. You may think that I couldn't possibly comment.

Our main topic of discussion today is car dealerships. Now we often malign car dealerships for not effectively selling electric vehicles, if they also have internal combustion engine cars on the forecourt. But how true is this? Well, I was at a dealership once and they said that of all the salesmen in the dealership only two of them actually drive electric because they only have one demo model each of the two EVs that that dealer sells, so the rest of the dealers are expected to sell electric vehicles without knowing or understanding the models themselves. And this obviously is an issue. We've also anecdotally heard of dealers, dissuading customers from going full EV and selling them a hybrid, or even a diesel. Now, we also know that the dealership in several cases are woefully under educated when it comes to knowing and understanding anything about electric vehicles. I was speaking to someone at a BMW/Mini dealership, and he told me that they're not provided with anything from the Mini/BMW factory, about the electric Mini, for example. So we seem to have some sort of a paradox here. We have car manufacturers who, under the ZEV mandate - the zero emission vehicle mandate, have a duty to sell an increasing proportion of their cars with zero tailpipe emissions. And we have the same manufacturers who are not providing their dealers with the information they need to be able to do this. It has to be said however, this is not universal. We'll talk to someone today whose responsibility it is to provide that level of education at a dealership for one specific marque. And I know there are others in similar roles of the dealer chains. But we still have two main issues when it comes to the dealer network. Firstly, we have dealers who do not know enough information to be able to appropriately sell electric cars to customers. This could be because of a lack of general education for the manufacturers, or the dealer chain. And secondly, we have customers taking delivery of electric vehicles and not receiving an appropriate level of education about the car to help them make the transition from a petrol car to an electric one. In my experience, the latter issue is the bigger of the two. It's easy to be "hoodwinked" into getting an electric car that might not be quite appropriate for you - too short a range, too slow charging speed, you may not have home charging, etc. But once you've got that car home, if you have no idea about how to charge it, how to find charges, the difference between AC fast charging and DC rapid charging, how the actual charge connector on your vehicle works, you're heading for a very disappointing experience when it comes to your electric vehicle. So I want to look at these issues, and see just how prevalent they are and what sort of solutions we have for them. To help us today I have an actual car dealer, Simon Acton from New Ecocars in Ireland, as well as representative from a mainstream dealer. Ben Traviss, we'll start with Simon Acton. Simon is based in Ireland and he runs Next Ecocar. His clientele are mainly looking for secondhand cars. And I asked him about the sort of education he went through to learn about electric vehicles.

Simon A.:

Well suppose when I when I started, I primarily did a lot of research online before I started the business. And then I was lucky enough to meet a few dealers in the UK who were doing a similar thing. So I kind of built up my initial bank of knowledge that way, but I suppose moving forward, my involvement with the Irish EV Association certainly helped because it exposed me to a lot of different stakeholders in the piece, especially around charging and so on. And yeah, I suppose I spend a lot of time making sure I'm following people like yourself, Gary, who are giving great great knowledge and information about about the whole ecosystem. But yeah, it's a question of staying plugged in and connected and going to relevant events and making sure you're speaking to people both on the consumer side and on the, you know, on the, on the other side, the supply side as well to make sure you know, you, you understand what they're thinking and what's coming down the tracks and hoping to gain some knowledge there as to what might help consumers in the future.

Gary C:

So let's move on to customer education. If a customer comes into your dealership, Simon, wanting to buy an electric car, what's the approach you take with them,

Simon A.:

some people will come at you with I want, you know, a particular car, others will come at you with a more sort of broad sort of view of what their, what they need. I suppose I always try and bring it back to what what they need, you know, there's two, two really key pieces around that those being you know, how they're going to handle charging, can they charge at home? Or will they need to be charging in public? Can they charge at work if they can't charge, you know, at home? But also, what are they going to use the vehicle for? And obviously, that's primarily digging into what sort of range they need in the vehicle? What are their what are their day to day driving habits? And you know, what are their kind of more exceptional driving habits and how exceptional are they? So, you know, if someone is primarily - and a lot of people will be doing, you know, very low mileage on a daily basis, you know, sort of, I think, in Ireland, the average is kind of 30 kilometres a day, statistically, is what most people drive on average. But then, you know, a lot of people might travel every weekend, whereas some people might not travel very much at all, maybe only once or twice a year on longer journeys. So that really kind of plays into then, you know, what the options might be, but also things like, you know, have they mobility issues as well, you know, that they need a higher seated car rather than, you know, one that's lower down, you know, do they do, they also have sort of requirements around having, you know, a seven seater or something like that, which obviously is more challenging, or certainly has been in the timeframe, it's getting a bit easier now, but still not really anything that affordable on the US market. So it's really just understanding what they want.

Gary C:

Traditionally, one reason put forward for why main dealers don't like pushing EVs is, is that they lack the large follow up money that can be made from servicing repairs, fewer parts being fewer things to go wrong. But that's not quite as open shut as it sounds, there's still a need for servicing of EVs. And they do occasionally need bits replacing over time, especially when they get to the age of some of the earlier ones on the road in Ireland in the UK. So what's the servicing situation like in Ireland, obviously,

Simon A.:

We want to see it like we're starting to see in the UK with operations like Cleveley EV, that we've got some independence getting into the mix, but I think a few have kind of dip their toes into the water, but they're very few and far between in Ireland at this stage, I'd say there's maybe a handful, which have affiliated dealers, and obviously we'd like to see more, but there's a big, there's a big challenge here. And it's almost a bit chicken and egg, because what you need is people to be skilled up and have the right equipment to be able to do that work. And that is not a small financial investment by any means. But then the people that are taking on that burden, or you know, being leaders in that area, need to see that they're going to get enough throughput and business to actually make that a sustainable part of their business. And I don't think we're at that point yet. But that's creating a problem, which is that many dealers are getting backed up now with you know, service requests for EVs customers, you know, some of the EVs on the road now, like I said, some of them are even more than 10 years so you really don't want to be going back to main dealer at that point, you want to be going to a to a your friendly, local garage, but we're just not seeing that happening quickly enough. And I think what it requires is some sort of investment or grant opportunity for the sector to actually get the staff skilled up and get the equipment that they need to actually be doing this work and actually get a foothold in that market and build from there.

Gary C:

If I go into a mainstream dealer that sells both fossil fuel cars and electric vehicles at the moment, especially in UK, I could go in and say, Yeah, you know, I'd like this particular EV. And the salesman may then say, Sure, that's good. But have you considered a hybrid? Have you considered this particular diesel SUV? So they might end up steering people away from electric vehicles. And I think a lot of that is potentially the commission structure and the price related to it, but there's also this aspect of, well, if I sell that, I'll get the commission and the company will get the sales and the service aspect, whereas with an electric, it's a lot lower. Talk to me a bit about this aspect of the sales process, Simon.

Simon A.:

Yeah, I know. I think we definitely see that happening. And you can understand where people are in a commission based job that, you know, they want to sell vehicles. And it's undoubtedly more effort to get people into an EV. If they're on the fence, and like you say, there isn't then potentially as much revenue to be gained afterwards, either. So I, you know, anecdotally, I know this is going on, and even that some operations have kind of encouraged this behaviour in their salespeople. And that's their prerogative to do that. I suppose I'm not, I'm not conflicted because we only sell EV. We used to sell plug in hybrids, and I - going back to day one - I would have put some people into hybrids as well, because if I didn't think needs could be met by an EV. So, but I think that has really changed in the time that I've been running this business. I mean, I don't think I think there were very few cases now, where you couldn't put someone in an EV. Maybe if it's someone that's on the road all day, every day, being a travelling salesman or something like this, then an EV still isn't going to be right for that person. But, you know, that gap between who you'd put put in an EV and who you wouldn't, has really shifted in the time I've been involved, because cars now, you know, routinely have ranges of 400 or 500 kilometres, you know, you don't.. and Ireland is a smaller place than UK. So there's only so far you can go. But yeah, I mean, I, I suppose I don't, I don't necessarily have an issue with people putting customers into plug in hybrids or hybrids, if there's a reason to do that. But I think, yeah, I'm not sure it's always done for the right reasons, which is that to suit, you know, to suit their needs, rather than a suit that business's needs, which is to sell a car as quickly as possible, I think, you know, particularly with, with plug in hybrids, the kind of use case where the actually applicable is narrower than it ever was, but there's an awful lot of them still being sold. And I get the fact that some people are just nervous, and they want that instead, and that's fine. But I think it's really about educating people properly and taking the time to do that. And then you can you can get people to understand why that maybe isn't the right vehicle for them.

Gary C:

What we've identified is that the mainstream dealership model for EVs is, you could say broken, but I'll be diplomatic and say it's working on an outdated model. But that's not something that happens everywhere. There are dealerships that have identified that knowing more about electric vehicles, and having somebody there who can answer the questions a potential customer can have is going to be beneficial. So let's go and chat with someone who works for dealership. But who isn't actually incentivized to sell electric vehicles, or indeed any cars, he's just said to talk about them. Welcome, Ben Traviss, who works with a large dealership selling high end, German performance cars, one of which is electric seem to be joined by another. Now that's all I'm saying about who he works for. And I don't care how much you push me on it. I'm not saying any more. Welcome, Ben, tell me how you interact with customers.

Ben T.

My role is kind of sales support. So I introduced myself, kind of get a bit of an understanding as to why they're here how much time they have, and what it is that they're looking to achieve from a from an appointment or from a conversation today. And really, it's about establishing, establishing what they're, what they're obviously there for. But it's to make - make - I'm here to befriend people, I'm here to build that trust. And for me, it's really important to know the customer because my role, because I don't have the the targets, selling vehicles, I want to get to know a little bit more about them, it actually really helps being quite nosy, if I'm totally honest, like just just sort of asking how their days and then sort of that those are the initial questions. But you know, when someone mentions "I've got a dog" I can't, I can't not ask what dog you've got, what their name is, and just just talk to them. Like we're not even in a in a retail space. You know, the cars are actually one of the last things that we ever really talk about, I want to be able to build that confidence with them so that they understand that when we're talking about the cars when we get there that I'm going to twin what I now know about the customer with my product in college. So that's kind of kind of what I do on a regular basis. It just go one step beyond that though. So I take the lead with handovers of electric vehicles and sometimes plug in hybrid electric vehicles. And also we've got something at the retailer where I currently work at the moment called a master class. So essentially, a customer has a little time I guess on the day they're either really excited or they've got other plans have got scheduled to stick to there busy people will actually reconvene at a later point and go "Right. Perfect. What would you like to know? What would you like to learn or what would you like to know today?" And for us, really, it is, it is about giving the customer the maximum amount of flexibility. We're not saying that you have to do this in a certain time. And it's not, you know, this can be so many restrictions. Sometimes when collecting a vehicle, we have to be flexible and think the flexibility element is where, again, they feel really comfortable just coming in and asking us questions about the cars, because at the end of the day, that I'm not trying to set you early, I'm not trying to sell them anything. It's about building that rapport, building the competence building the trust.

Gary C:

Now, I spoke earlier about the dealership, I went into where there were only a couple of salesmen who actually sell cars. Do you think all salesmen should drive electric cars at some point, at the very least? So they know what they are talking about?

Ben T.

I think if you're if you're someone who doesn't drive an electric car, and you're speaking to someone about electrification, there are certain things that a manufacturer and OEM can provide that retailer networks with. So think back: WLTP, we're talking, you know, zero to 62, times, all that kind of thing. We have cars in the showroom, etc. So you can show physically show customers what the car looks like. But I think when it comes to the - so I call, I call people that have walked through the door for the very first time, I kind of call those day one customers, they might not have done any research whatsoever, and they're brand new to it. In which case, I think a lot of my colleagues could potentially help with some of the basics. And that's absolutely fine. When we get customers who are very much not Day One customers, they've done a lot of research, or a lot of EV customers tend to be fairly considered. Lots of research, and they come to us to kind of almost confirm what they think they already know. It's real detailed stuff, real details, questions that people who don't drive electric, may struggle to answer. So we're talking like charging curves, charging best practices, charging etiquette, home charging, I told customers about EV tariffs. So you know, those kinds of questions that living with an electric car situation, question, scenario, number, probably where they would struggle a lot more I would say.

Gary C:

So Ben, we've talked about your interaction with customers. I'm curious about how you approach dealing with things like jargon.

Ben T.

And I don't talk in jargon to customers, I hate talking in jargon, unless a customer is at that level, and they want to talk to you at that level, in which case, fine. But you know, I'm not talking about how big the battery is to some customers initially, it's, they're worried about the range. So I go 'Right'. I'll tell a story. And I put things into context for them and how it would work for them in their world. And it's easier for customers to digest that information. So for me, I just think that honesty, transparency, and just befriending people initially is the way to go with with electric vehicles at retailer level, because I'm sure there'd be a lot of people listening to this thinking, well, sales rise and sales executives, they don't have the greatest of, of, you know, of .. people don't think they're the very, like untrustworthy, like people don't want to talk to sales executives. And I think that's why my role exists, you know, I'm not here to here to try and get you into a car and sign on the dotted line, my role is really to just, let's get to the bottom of why you're here.

Gary C:

I'm also curious about the actual level of training that dealers get on electric cars, specifically, the cars in your fleet.

Ben T.

There are mandatory, there is mandatory digital training that you have to undertake, in order for, in order for the retailer itself to meet specific targets for the brand, you have to have achieved a certain level of understanding, not through, not just reading, but there are also tests that you that you do to help Porsche and the retailer that I work for, established that you have read and understood. But like anything, and this goes way back to school, you know, and I've worked in places where this is the thing where people will do tests together, share that information, and where maybe taking on information is more about getting through the test and ticking the box, as opposed to actually taking in understanding it feeling that you can go and confidently help a customer.

Gary C:

Now it's all well and good talking about training the dealers and making sure they know how to sell the electric cars on the lot. I'm curious about the next level the additional aspect of that, which is the education given to the customer at handover.

Ben T.

The thing with this situation is that handovers, pre handovers anything where I have interaction with a customer, we're lucky to be to have on site, Porsche retailers. The fact that we've got Porsche Turbo chargers, we have access to rapid chargers really, really fast, fast chargers, we have AC chargers on site as well. So guess what? Part of that whole process and even if we do at the handover stage at least they always get from me they always get offered: 'Have you done this before? Shall we go and do this now when you don't need charge' Because of course is the best time to do when you're not stressed out and you're thinking I'd need to be.... Charge when you don't need to charge especially initially when you take delivery of the vehicle because that to me makes so much sense. Yeah. So I'll actually walk over with a customer will will park up and walk a customer through the actual how this charger works.. the cust- at no point do I ever touch anything to do with the charger. I'm just there to kind of oversee and facilitate if you like, always ask at the end so I know this was a barrier for you. I know that you felt like this was a really big deal charging now that you've done it a score out of 10 How do you feel?

Gary C:

So, to summarise, I don't think there's any doubt that there are flaws in the current dealership models from dealers who don't drive electric vehicles to promote in the car that's on the forecourt rather than the best cars for the customer. The incentive model isn't working right for many dealers. However, as Ben Traviss pointed out, there are several dealerships who are managing to at least put in people who can answer the appropriate questions. There are still issues with this process. As Ben explained when I asked him about what happens if someone comes in wanting en EV when he's on his days off. There's still the human element in there which might be more commission oriented rather than customer oriented on the part of the salesman. But if the questions are answered, and the associat -, the associated level of education is given at the sale, and handover, this goes a long way towards solving the myriad of issues that can arise in the current selling process. Couple that with the government ZEV mandate that calls for an increasing percentage of electric cars to be sold for each dealer in a year, and you have all the makings of a much better dealership model. Let's see how that progresses as we move forward. Many thanks to Simon and Ben, for coming on to chat. This season we're looking at raising the awareness of carbon literacy with our listeners. One way we're doing that is with a carbon fat as read by carbon literacy trainer, Anne Snelson.

Anne Snelson:

Did you know changing light bulbs to LED and recycling are some of the least effective things we can do. If you want to help reduce climate change, cut your meat and dairy, make fewer journeys, lower your heating and swap to renewable energy instead. Oh and don't forget your pension. Swapping it to green investment can be one of the best things you can do.

Gary C:

It's time for cool EV or renewable thing share with your listeners. Metallica, the rock band Metallica, are finally coming into the 21st century by using Iveco, Eveco, Aveco? electric cars on their tour, the electric drive trucks, some full battery, some hydrogen will ferry the band's gear and road crews between 14 concert venues across Europe throughout the summer. In addition, Iveco will also provide electric and CNG fuel versions of its daily model shuttle buses for onsite transportation at different concerts, which will further reduce Metallica's carbon footprint. I mean, there's certainly room for improvement on this and hopefully full electric transportation regime will become the standard in future. But we can't take anything away from the fact that Metallica is focused on doing the right thing. And if that's the case, then nothing else matters. And that's the show for today. Hope you enjoyed listening to it.If you want to contact me, I can be emailed at evmusings@gmail.com. I’m also on twitter @musingsev If you want to support the podcast (and newsletter) please consider contributing to becoming an EV Musings Patron. The link is in the show notes. Don’t want to sign up for something on a monthly basis? If you enjoyed this episode why not buy me a coffee? Go to Ko-fi.com/evmusings and you can do just that. Takes Apple Pay, too! I have a couple of ebooks out there if you want something to read on your Kindle. 'So, you've gone electric?' is available on Amazon worldwide for the measly sum of 99p or equivalent and it's a great little introduction to living with an electric car. ‘So you’ve gone renewable’ is also available on Amazon for the same 99p and it covers installing Solar Panels, a storage battery and a heat pump And if you've got Amazon Prime and you can use the Kindle lending library, you can read them for nothing. Why not check them both out?. Links to everything we've talked about in the podcast today are in the description. If you enjoy this podcast, please subscribe. It's available on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Please leave a review. It helps raise our visibility and extend our reach in search engines. If you reach this part of this podcast, and are still listening, thank you. Why not? Let me know you've got to this point by tweeting me at musings EV with the words Dealer or no deal #ifyouknowyouknow, nothing else. Thanks as always to my co founder Simon. You know it's very easy when you're in an e-Skate bubble to fall into your own lingo, your own sayings, your own jargon. Simon's better than that. He's into plain talking proper English.

Ben T.

And I don't talk in jargon to customers. I hate talking in jargon.

Gary C:

Thanks for listening. Bye